“I don't know whether a poem has be there to help to develop something. I think it's there for itself, for what the reader finds in it.”

“If we can't have the courage to tell our constituents, hey, we've got to cut back, then if we can point to something and say, I would like to vote for more benefits for you, but this balanced budget amendment or statutory spending cap or whatever the device is, is preventing me from doing it.”